21: Discovering The Art of Self-Worth

Podcast Episodes
October 23, 2022

The Authentic Wife and Mom

Beth Rowles | The Conscious Marriage Coach

Discovering the art of self-worth seems to be something we do somewhere in mid-life when we leave systems behind and know our human value outside of our system value, and then have to do all over again once we’re ready to put our art, our essence, our non-physical into form… back in that system-based world humans have created.

In episode 21 of The Authentic Wife Show, you’ll learn how systems keep us stuck in a shame cycle with author and artist Michaell Magrutsche. And so much more! This is one of my favorite conversations and I loved that I could go deep with Michaell. We talked about everything from why men choose women they don’t prefer to how they’re just as eager to please as we are — even giving up their life for it.



Today’s guest is Michaell Magrutsche, an Austrian-Californian multimedia Artist, educator, author of 5 art-related books, podcaster, coach, creative advisor, and former Newport Beach CA arts commissioner. Our conversation explores the discovery of our human potential through the contrast of man-made systems, which can keep us stuck in a worthiness shame loop while we waste the most precious gift of all, time. Learn how your non-physical essence is an important puzzle piece in all of humanity.


(This is the largely unedited auto-transcription of our conversation.)

Beth Rowles: Michael, I am so happy to have you here. I love what you’re doing with encouraging people to step away from so much doing and really find themselves through being. So, how did you come into doing what you’re doing now? How did you come into this being work in this

Michaell Magrutsche: artist? Uh, being a master doer, ? Oh, I’m, yeah.

I’m, I’m, Thank you for, um, allowing me. To be here. Uh, I, I am, um, I was a master doer. The reason was I was a sick child and I couldn’t get to school till seven, and then I got the second whamy, which was dyslexia and dysgraphia. So I couldn’t comprehend and I couldn’t replicate. So I’m not a [00:02:00] copier. I was right away from my thing.

I couldn’t replicate what other humans did, and I was unaware. What happens, and I tried through shame and whatever because that the self shaming is the worst. I mean, I was never bullied because I’m very strong person. Mm-hmm. was never bullied or anything, but the fact of, uh, you know, you are DNA driven to, to belong to the tribe.

Right? Right. You wanna belong to family tribe, whatever, and then you’re the ugly duck. , you know, and then you can’t, you don’t fit. Mm-hmm. and so many people feel like this and because it’s, it’s a metaphor. The ugly duckling is you can’t fit you, you can’t really fit into the, because everybody’s unique.

Everybody has a different dna and ours speak, speak of the [00:03:00] class, but I failed the. So it wasn’t like I would speak of the class and everybody loved me and I got through, but I, I was hum. I’m now conscious of this. I wasn’t conscious of it at all cuz I tried to survive one day after the other, you know, and be accepted or be a part of the human experience.

And so I try to overcompensate everyth. So, uh, I did more homework. I had more tutors, but I still, I couldn’t, I couldn’t beat my own, quote unquote, ugliness, right? I, I couldn’t beat it, but it wasn’t my ugliness, it was my strengths. See, I, I see that now and after 50 years, I recognized, oh, my, The fact that I couldn’t fit into systems is exactly my part of [00:04:00] humanity that I have to contribute to make humanity aware or others aware that we live already in a metaverse.

We, we, we, that’s called, we, we experience humanity through a system. We are born in hospitals. Everything is a system right in the country that we are in, The language that we are in, it’s all systematic. So we don’t need to get another metaverse. We need to be aware first that we are in a metaverse because we are not a tribe.

We are not a humans to humans. We are basically experienced humanity through through systems. Mm. And sys- guess who created systems? We did. They’re human created. So that’s where I think the most confusion comes today, that people are not aware of. That we experience and doing is one. What, what you, what you, that what you said is exactly that.

The, [00:05:00] the doing is the, is the system thing. You know, if you’re doing right, you’re good in the system, right? If you don’t, but it has nothing to do with the human in nature. The elephant and the ant don’t have different values because they exist their value, right? Yes. The ant as well as the, as the elephant, it doesn’t matter if the elephant is more beautiful or bigger, it does, there is no judgment of that.

Not because judgment is bad, because human, uh, nature doesn’t make mistakes and everything, every fungi, every, every, uh, living being has a purpose. In nature and it constantly alters and, and adapts. It constantly changes. And, and humans are the same way. We need sleep, we need, uh, relaxation, We need, uh, we have periods.

Women have periods, men have periods too. But, you [00:06:00] know, but, but we have bio rhythms, we have cycles. Nature has seasons and systems are, all systems are based on, um, on. Uh, you know, financial principles, which is human created. Yeah. And financial principles. Even a religion, even a non-profit, they all need the financial principles and therefore systems are very static.

They’re not fluid like humans are and nature is. And that this dissonance between static and fluid makes us do more because we feel like, because we don’t know, we are not aware, Oh, we are part of nature. We think we need to save nature. We are part of nature. That’s right. We don’t need to save the nature.

It’s not another other system that we have to save. If, if we kill each other with an atomic war, whatever natures keep going, it’ll be fine. It grows over [00:07:00] us. It grows over us. But we are so blinded that we think, Oh, we have to save nature like that. Another system that we have to save, like the homeless or.

We don’t, we are part of it. You. and love that. And we, and we get lost in that, you know, ,

Beth Rowles: I love this cuz this is, is really the main thing that I did. I saved my marriage and the thing that I had to do was let go of that system that I had been conditioned with about how he should be and how he should behave.

Because he has ADHD with hyper focus and he does things differently on his own timeline. And he’s a beautiful, wonderful person. But I was really trying to. Make him fit into that acceptable mold, because I had all that pressure on myself, and that’s how I was speaking to myself. What does art have to do with getting out of this system?

How does, how did that help

Michaell Magrutsche: [00:08:00] you? Just by default? By default, I found, And that was nowhere. Again, I was in the moment, like you were, you know, with your husband, you were in the moment and in the moment you just could react. Like where you conditioned were, you know? Yeah. Women are different than men. Bullshit.

Of course they are different, but, but at the woman and man are humans. Mm-hmm. Every race is a human. Every sexuality is a, is a human. That’s your focus. It’s a different one. No human is the same. So therefore, any qualification or uh, conditioning or stereotyping of what a woman is, what a man is, you know, there’s woman that are ways stronger than men, and there’s men that are more feminine than any woman can be.

So all the classification and, and stereotyping are wrong. I mean, they are holding to a certain degree, but if you put him as a whole in the. Humanity. They’re wrong. They’re [00:09:00] absolutely wrong. Well, I think even from country, country to country, they’re wrong.

Beth Rowles: I think in some aspects though, that what that just made me think of is like, um, as a girl, there is something in us that is so motivated to be the good girl and to perfectly follow the system.

Whereas I think maybe, maybe it, I don’t know if it was easy for him or not, but it’s like my husband had no problem.

Michaell Magrutsche: Being, if he has ADHD or something, then it doesn’t because I didn’t either, you know? Mm-hmm. But because I’m the it, you know, so, Yeah. And I, I, I always knew I was dyslexic, but because I was so extreme dyslexic, but I was never understand how that fits in now, the research and, and, and now it makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah. But I think our. Men have two. I I wanna calm you down, man. Have you wanna be the good boy? Okay. They [00:10:00] wanna be the good boy. Look at all the soldiers. Mm. All the soldiers right, are the nicest human beings that, that are, you know, uh, on, on. They actually wanna do it something very essential. Mm.

Protect the tribe because they have strengths. They wanna protect the tribe. It’s very, very, uh, what you say. It’s. It’s almost like a metaphor, but it’s, it’s, it’s a, it, it’s a function, a human function. You know, the tribe, we help each other out because power is in inclusion, not in the exclusion, and then they get system defined because it’s not natural to fight each other when you don’t even know it.

It’s, it’s okay when you have a disagreement and somebody dies. It’s not okay, but you know, it can happen. Mine, yeah. But it’s not, you’re going to somebody that you don’t know. Has a family too, and, and, and works on the stereotypes. So now you say, Oh, why does women wanna be good? Men Wanna be good? And [00:11:00] there’s two things.

The dna, uh, we wanna be at the tribe, right? And humans are in, in general, benevolent unless they are distorted by conditioning through systems. When you learn how you are as a human through this system, then you are false because from zero to seven you learn how the world is. You know, you learn. So that’s why you’re not born as a grown up.

You’re born. What is my essence in the physical manifestation? What does it take. And you learn that from zero to seven, right? Or eight. Yeah. Right. So, so you say, Okay, this is what I have to do. And that’s where the conditioning happenings, because one of our superpower is adaptation. We, we, there’s three superpowers, Creativity, uh, human dialogue, healthy human dialogue.[00:12:00]

So the communication between us and then the adaptability. Mm-hmm. . And because we adapt, we, we think, okay, in order to survive, It’s even deeper than dna. You know, the, the survival is to adapt to what it takes to be in your essence as a human being, as a woman, as a young woman, as a African woman, as a European woman, and the same for men.

So you have all these classification that you, you condition yourself. And I want to go back to your question about art. Mm. In art, art is so powerful because when what you practice with art is bringing the non phy, bringing your nonphysical into the physical. So you have an inspiration of a color.

You had the inspiration to do a podcast, right? Mm-hmm. , so it’s a thought. And you bring that [00:13:00] into the physical, how you do it. Everybody does it different because we all different. So bringing your essence from the non-physical into the physical, that’s not spiritual or, or hocus pocus, it just is. It just, you can just, you can follow me, right?

It’s, I’m not out outta space and time. So you bring the non, non-physical into the physical. And because you’re unique. I always like so many youngins that when they, when they grow up right, you escape in film, music and all the stuff. And I did also create, you know, and when I was 30, I, I realized, oh my God, every job I did was I don’t need to be called an artist from the society.

I know I am. I’m being an artist because all my 30 years. Art not only helped me survive, [00:14:00] helped me being okay being a human, but also in the art community. It’s about inclusion. Mm. You know, when you create a theater piece, there’s leads, but it’s always, it’s very dependent on everybody to, to work together to make that piece gel.

And, and, and so I found in the arts community, And that’s why in the artist community are the most neurodiverse people because they feel so archetypically art and art creation. It’s very powerful. Not because what system says about the art, not the of the art product, but the art creation. It’s the creation process.

That reveals so much about your humanity. I have zero education. Everything I’m blabbering here is that I discovered or read from creating art [00:15:00] and you know, being with art and being an artist community. And that’s why 97% of artists, we, they’re not a way of that. And I, through my dyslexia, I think I became aware of.

They’re focusing on the product. And that’s why 97% of artists are poor in the world, you know, around the poverty level. So

Beth Rowles: they’re so, they’re around the poverty level because they, because why? Because they’re focusing,

Michaell Magrutsche: not, they’re focusing on the product. They’re focusing like everybody else for you. You wanna, likes, you want, you’re not focus, you’re not milking the pr the.

The moment is you and me. Right now. I’m not thinking about I have to pay bills and do this. Uh, milk the moment right now. Make it as intense as you can, uh, and really drive to dive deep in, in. Now, I couldn’t dive deep if I wasn’t in the moment. Oh, if I think about, you know, thinking about the bills and [00:16:00] my girlfriend or, or my boyfriend or whatever, if I think about these things, I’m getting crazy, you know, and it’s very shallow and this is what the problem is.

Systemically, we all shallow. It’s just we try to get from one day to another. Mm.

Beth Rowles: Yeah. We just live at the surface. I don’t, I, every one of my new clients has a problem with presence just like I did. And it’s just, Yeah. We all, we think about is the past and the future. That’s true about the art, because I know when I’ve, when I wrote my book or when I make a new course or something, my first inclination is, Well, now it’s done

Like, here you go. And I. Experience was making it, coming back to it and promoting it and helping people see it and find it and like to actually make money from that is, is a challenge cuz we just wanna

Michaell Magrutsche: keep saying, and there’s so much product out there. I mean, even if you’re at the best, I mean, see it has, the quality has nothing to do with the [00:17:00] quantity, but in the system promotes, copying and promotes, uh, a quantity.

So it never is about, Oh my God, Beth, you are a unique one of one person human being. Ev you are counting because you’re just existing. So I don’t need to have a hundred thousand likes and a million book sales to say, Beth, you’re worthy. Right? And I think that the differentiation of worth and system value is essential.

Mm. Because system always says, What am I gonna do in the future to get there? You can’t because there’s so much product out there and, you know, media and, and the systems only talk about the 1%, the Elon Musk, the Jeff Bezos. They’re not talking about Michael and Beth because that’s right. System. We are not system enough, system relevant.

If you and I did some whatever craziness, [00:18:00] That we get all these followers and all these things, all of a sudden we are system relevant and we get offered, You know, the first, um, viral video or one of the first groups that had a viral video, they made 10 million views and they got the check for $187. Then later, because they proved themself to the system, they got advertising and they made.

but the first time, I mean, what is, if you only have one time, a 10 million viewers, you know? Mm-hmm. , and so it makes no sense. Right.

Beth Rowles: Well, Because I was thinking earlier when you were talking about how kids grow up in the system and Yeah. And thinking about how many kids like myself included, who derive their worth from how well they fit into the system.

Right, Exactly. Like we, we either are not part of the tribe, or we’re not doing well in school, or we’re not like, our parents never seem to be happy, so we come to adulthood feeling. Worthless. [00:19:00] And then if we actually do step into our worth and then learn how to be and be present and create and do things, then if we go out and put that into the system, then there’s all that potential to feel worthless again.

Michaell Magrutsche: The system. It’s a constant shame loop. It’s a shame loop. Yeah. And you make that very clear. Yeah, but I wasn’t even thinking that you had the second time. I mean, it’s, Yeah. You, you get, you find yourself mm-hmm. , right? You find yourself, let’s say 35, 40. You find who you are a little bit, you get a little taste of it.

You unveiled enough of the crap that you’re saying, Okay, I am worthy. Mm-hmm. , it really doesn’t matter. And then it goes, and then, and let’s say you meet somebody when you’re. 40 you go right back into the system. Do I have as a man, do I have to support, uh, the woman? Yeah. All the system defined, you know, do I have to do this?

Do I have to be the savior? Do I have to be the [00:20:00] woman? I wanna be the princess? Do, am I pretty enough? Am I, I mean, it’s all the system defined things that make us separate, not come together, you know? Right. If system wouldn’t say, Hey, it’s about money. It’s about looks, it’s about, you know, and it, the, the, the crazy thing is we are so in the moment to survive.

We are not even just about woman, right? All the different woman, uh, they don’t do it with man because it’s still a show. Chauvinistic society also system defined that it’s not the guy’s problem. It, it’s, it’s just the system. We created the system where this is, But look at the beauty of women. In the twenties, there were no breasts, then there were big breasts.

Then I was, uh, hour glass figure. Then I was this, then there were blondes, then there were darkness. Uh, now it’s big booties. I mean, it’s what, just under physical? [00:21:00] You’re born with what you’re born with. Right. Yeah. I mean, what, hundreds of years ago? Cause everybody was different, right?

Beth Rowles: Yeah. I was gonna say like hundreds of years ago, the, the big overweight was the look, because that was the hard to obtain thing, cuz you only were fat if you had money to buy the food.

Now it’s easy. It goes back

Michaell Magrutsche: the other way. No, no. And, and I mean, it was the, it was the essence of what it is a woman, you know? Mm. And it changes systemize, it doesn’t change. So people wanna belong. So let’s say I am wanted to have really skinny woman and, and heavy woman, all the fat, big booties and everything.

I could not, I would think, uh, I think, Oh my God, yeah, I like this, but. I wouldn’t do that, but way I would, I would not do that anymore. I would just go [00:22:00] for what I like. Right. But, but if, if I was like 30 or something, you know, in that age and then I say, Oh my God, I like this. But I have to actually get something that I don’t like, that I’m part of the tribe.

Because tribe always trumps because you know, because you are DNA driven to the. Right, Because there is where, where diversity is happens, that’s where, where we actually see the power, the more people. That’s why you have power when you have in groups and stuff. So we are driven to the whole, but the system says, No, you gotta be a special way, which divides us again.

That’s stress, That’s static versus fluid, you know. And see what’s happened.

Beth Rowles: We do that with our homes and stuff too. Like, Oh, I’ve gotta have the big house or the certain cards exactly to be accepted when maybe we don’t care. I remember when, um, because I quit my job as an engineer to become a coach, and there was time where money got [00:23:00] really tight after that, and I told my husband, like, I’m okay if we go live in a trailer.

Yeah, we can do that if we need to. But he’s was so in this. No, no way. But it, you’re right. If we’re in the flow of it, we’re in just our natural present state. When do we have enough, Like it’s easier to see. I’ve got enough. It’s okay. And I’m provided for and I’m good. Right? Yeah. Do you think that you recognize when, when you look at art and whether that’s literally a painting or movies or even videos or books, can you recognize when somebody’s essence is on the screen or on the paper?

Like can you, is that a feeling of like, does it resonate

Michaell Magrutsche: with you different? And I think that, I think this is the magic. Mm. I think this, the system can too. So, so when I, it’s like a skill. The more I’m bringing [00:24:00] in from the non-physical, into the physical, I get a skill. Mm-hmm. , you know, if you start anything, you can’t run a marathon tomorrow, but if you’re say, in two years I’m gonna run a marathon, you can build yourself up, you can get that skill, how do you know, use your energy and everything.

So when you’re constantly in and out, you know it’s physical to non-physical, and you play that interac. You get clearer, you’re not getting better, you’re getting clearer. There’s no better or worse in art. You’re getting clearer in your how to translate that commentation and you are, and because I said the piece of art, the music, the whatever is the product of that interaction, the clearer you get the interaction, the more it is recognized because we are all one.

So the, the oneness, the people liking that is something, especially that is recognizable for [00:25:00] everyone. So you don’t need to be in a deep state to recognize this person is valuable. You just feel it because they have something and that, or they’re star, they have star power, right? You’re think you’re thinking, these guys are, these guys are lying.

It’s not their fault. They’re not aware of. But because of their birth, their matrix or whatever, they are recognized and that’s what’s called the, you know, that’s what everybody think. Oh, this is magical. That, that, and that’s why in the system, Kim Kardashian is more valuable than you and I, you know, she has, and it’s true, she has more system value, but she is not worth anything more.

Everybody’s worth one, right? Because. But she has more system value. And if we can get that, Yeah, you might not have system value. You not, might not, Let’s say if, if you’re gay, you might not be system, have [00:26:00] not, not as much system value as a heterosexual couple. Right. But you are worthy because you exist and there’s something about that worthiness and you have to unveil why you are worthy.

And that’s what I say is self-awareness comes in because you’re aware with all your faults, how these faults fit to the whole, how this, how this faulty human being, which everybody is, but it’s faulty to find what puzzle piece you are. And, that’s, when you’re like 25,

You have the human thing pretty much you understand what it is to be human and now becomes the work. When you unveil, when you keep ripping off the, uh, you know, the things that you are not, that is system defined. That is gen, gen, generational defined. You know, your, everybody was a baker in your family.

And you just fell into the [00:27:00] baker business. Now it’s for you to find out, is that Baker business, what my essence wants me to be? Or what, what my essence reflects my essence in the physical or not? And if you find it’s not, then you wanna be a surgeon, then you become a surgeon, you know, but in the system, but you’re still worthy.

It has nothing to do with your baker or not you. If you, if even if you go in the baker, Then you’re not system relevant as much. You know, you would be system relevant more as a, as a surgeon, but perhaps that is not your, your calling. So it’s, it’s, you gotta compartmentalize system work created by us.

They’re very static. They all go by financial principles. You cannot identify your essence with system values. Because if I do, then. I’m, I’m just a failure. I’m not, I shouldn’t be here. And that’s what the shame we feel. Yeah. That is the self shaming [00:28:00] then that you’re saying, Oh, I don’t have system value.

I’m flawed. And you are not flawed because nature doesn’t make mistakes. Right. There’s no extra, There’s nothing. Oh, we need to get rid of elephants. We need to get rid of s we need to get this. Yeah. Nature doesn’t do any mistakes. And because we are part of nature, , our existence is proof that we are worthy and we’re not worthy more than anybody, not worthy, less than anybody.

Nature doesn’t do any mistakes. And because we are part of nature, our existance is proof that we are worthy and that we’re not worthy more than anybody, not worthy less than anybody.

-Michaell Magrutsche

Then becoming to system definition, right? So if it wasn’t any systems, we knew that we are existing and we are valuable and we have to find exactly like in systems what is our, But see there, and this is great, This is just coming in, uh oh. This is the, the, the difference. It is important to find for your fulfilled life, to find your human puzzle piece, not your system puzzle [00:29:00] piece.

The system puzzle. Even if you find your human puzzle piece, the system, uh, puzzle piece will, will fit, will somehow you find it. So that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s so important. It’s not important that, and this is why the stress comes in. I wanna be the good girl. I wanna be the good. And then you try to, because you’re driven, I need to be part of the tribe.

And, and this is where stress comes in, because it’s good to have good, because living beings have stress, living beings, every living being in order to exist. They have to challenge every, ant challenge every, you know, every ape. Everybody has challenges. Tell me a human being that lived and said, You know, I lived, I had no challenges.

you have always challenge if you have money, if you have system relevant, if you’re irrelevant, you always have challenge. But system teaches. [00:30:00] Life should be sunny every day. And if it’s not, we sell you a Ferrari, a pill, or a face job, . Right. That’s exactly

Beth Rowles: what it’s,

Michaell Magrutsche: Right. And then you, Beth, you do that, you do that, you buy the Ferrari, you get the face job, you get the pills and whatever, and you’re not happy.

What does the system usually say? There’s something inherently wrong with you, and that is the core of all shame. Mm. There you have it. They have the loop. And that’s what art teaches me. Art and creativity. And that’s, it’s good because I, I’m not system defined in science or anything, you know?

Beth Rowles: Well, everybody needs to listen to this because I love what you just said about finding your human puzzle piece versus your system puzzle piece, because that we all, you’re so right.

We all have that purpose. A thing that we came here to be, and when we reject it, because of the system, we’re not doing like we’re flipping. The creator, whatever, because we didn’t do what we [00:31:00] came here to, to give. And I love that. I always teach, like, look for the contrast in your relationship to figure out who you are.

Look for the contrast in your life to figure out what you know. Am I the baker? Am I a musician? Like what exactly you can. It is true that the, the not feeling happy gets you closer to your authentic self if you don’t numb it with the Ferrari. So good. And

Michaell Magrutsche: every relationship is a good relationship. There is no bad relationship.

Yes, because it sh it is a reflection of you. It’s a reflection of you. And the more you come to this, the better your relationship. I know my relationship went violently aggressive or, or, or, or, uh, dissonant. Uh, Now they get better because the more I find myself, the more I accept myself. See, the acceptance of others is not because you don’t accept yourself.

This is another human thing. We always, what [00:32:00] we do to ourselves, I mean, look at the people, the most aggressive people, and you see that proven in media all the. Always have dirt on their thing. It’s, it’s always the, the ones that shame others. Yeah. How dare you say that? How dare that get of offensive you?

If you have people that defend themselves, you go after them if you’re a journalist, because they, they, and if they can give you a humane answer, you know, I made a. Which there’s, there’s no shame in making a mistake. Mistakes are bricks for success. They’re bricks for the road to success, right? You’re faulty, That’s inherently human, but in system faulty isn’t good.

Good enough. It’s never good enough. Mistakes are not good enough. Mm-hmm. . That’s why we, we. Loss and because everything is un unfair, we saying loss is negative growth. In the old days we said you had a loss, you, you lost money. It’s [00:33:00] negative growth. It’s it everything is gonna be reworded to manipulate humans.

And the sad thing is systems are not bad. We need systems. We need a tribe. Yeah. But they’re created by other people that have also three kids that need to feed them. And that’s why this is great because to bring it together to, with the, uh, creativity, we, using our creative superpower to fight each other through a system.

So the hacker creates a virus, right? Mm-hmm. , and then to make an antivirus software, they make money getting up, then get the better virus, more anti, it’s a great, uh, money, uh, making machine. Both humans are wasting their life force to fight each other. Taxes the same thing. [00:34:00] New taxes come, you know, and people like to navigate the taxes around.

Both humans are so blind and so idiot, like on a really dumb level that we fight other humans. And we waste our life force, our experience here, we don’t smell the roses. Yeah. Because we are busy fighting each other. I’m right. You were wrong. Who cares? What can we learn? Let’s go on.

Beth Rowles: I know using like politics as an identity here in America, especially the past five years or so, is, oh my god, such a waste.

Michaell Magrutsche: What a waste. What a waste of life. I could talk to you about this, for example, right? Awareness. You right. Or you can say I’m a Republican and I say I’m a Democrat, I’m a Republican. When we, we could fight each other and get nowhere and waste all that energy, but we are so afraid of having a deep dialogue, you know?

Yep. Uh, and, and [00:35:00] so it’s easy to talk about. I always say with guys, it’s easy to talk about sports cuz you don’t sit, talk about. just to talk about figures and, and, and, and thing. Did you see the last thing? So it’s a very safe conversation and you know, men are usually more sensitive than women, you know?

Mm-hmm. , uh, and they, they have a heart core. They can just shut it off, but then they get a heart attack, so it, the pressure goes out somewhere. Women are so much stronger because they talk about everything. But guys are, you know, sports, business, NFTs, this, this, all stuff. It’s safe. It’s safe. I see how uncomfortable man get, when I talk to man about stuff like this.

They don’t even open up to this because they’re afraid they’re worse. They don’t know as much. But I didn’t know either. I wasn’t taught. You just need to go into your body and feel it, [00:36:00] you know? Right.

Beth Rowles: Oh, I love that. Go into your body and feel it, because look at all this wisdom coming out of you now. It’s beautiful.

Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah. And I’m not trained, I’m not system trained. Mm-hmm. , I’m not, I don’t have a doctorate or anything. Yeah. And that’s why I’m saying I am personifying the example of what I. I said, Art is a superpower, second superpower dialogue, which you, we, you and I proof right here. Mm-hmm. , we exemplify how powerful an interaction can be.

And the third thing is we adapt through, uh, zoom meeting. Right. You in a different place where I am. And we adapt to that to have that conversation. Mm. So they’ll have all three superpowers in one. And, and, and if I’ll just say to everybody, I say, Just listen to this interview. There’s nothing to do.

There’s no steps. I hate steps. I hate because I’m dyslexic. I can’t remember the steps. Like, what do you have to do first you do this, take [00:37:00] and do this. It’s good in a, in a process of , bottling or any system things, you know, fabricating, there is this and this, you have to be careful that this step is before that and whatever.

But in human, you shouldn’t. And we try to, to to, to make a system for how to get to that. And we never get to it because the get to it is in the future. . So if I say I’m gonna do this to be successful never works because you always will do it. To be successful, you will push the future forward will be, Yeah.

Why cannot be now successful and look at my success and try to unveil it right now with you? Why do I have to wait and say I’m gonna do this and then get followers? I don’t care about the followers. I say what is the best that I can do in the moment. If people, if, if you we do something of human [00:38:00] value, they will find this episode.

Beth Rowles: Yes. Right. I agree. I agree. Uh,

Michaell Magrutsche: and there’s no stress. There’s no path. There’s no stress. We’re not stressing it. I hope, I hope you do. I’m not thinking, Oh my God, I hope Beth, that’s a good editing job that we gotta get this and out and then we gotta get more views. But this is where we waste our human life force.

That’s right. Why do we wanna do that? Right. ?

Beth Rowles: No, I, I think there’s a, I put a quote from the Tao in the front of my book and it’s something about like, once you do it, you just let it go. . Exactly. And I believe in that like it’s already, we were present in the moment. It’s,

Michaell Magrutsche: it’s perfection and focus on the doing focus while you’re doing what you’re doing.

Don’t think about, don’t be Already, when I published that book, I’ve done five books and they haven’t sold. You know, they sell, but not nothing great.

Beth Rowles: None of New York Times bestseller yet. Yeah, yeah. We need those systems [00:39:00] people to come promote our artists .

Michaell Magrutsche: Yeah, but the system, they have no idea.

Yeah. That is the thing. Uh, in the old days when you went to to Madison Avenue, right, into the advertising agency, they guaranteed you if you pay a million dollars, you get return on your investment, they make you 2 million or so. That was a system that actually worked for humans.

Mm. But now they, Then there’s no more promises for anything. Oh, really? What they promises you now is conversion and there’s soft conversion and hard conversion. Hard conversion. Somebody actually calls you. Soft conversion is somebody gets engaged and watches your video. Mm. But that, that is nothing.

That’s because you know how many you scroll by every time you scroll by is, is a conversion. Yeah.

Beth Rowles: It’s hard to get people’s attention

Michaell Magrutsche: now. You can’t, Beth you can’t. We have no time because we are wasting all that energy on systems we have [00:40:00] on system navigation. We have no time left to. . So even if I give you a million dollars, you can’t do more than you do now.

It, it’s not a money thing because what it is is a time thing. Mm. And that’s why I think the systems, if you’re not aware and change systems to become human, adapt, we wasting, we are coming, becoming physical and leave the planet and have not gotten any awareness. because we have to make systems, uh, human, adaptable, otherwise we are wasting all the time to, to, to, you know, just navigate systems.

It’s the time. That’s the value. It’s not the money. Mm. The time is the value that you, and the time is not the value to, to make more system time. The time is to be human. That’s why when people die, millionaires and billionaires, they never say, Oh.[00:41:00] I wish I would’ve gotten that high rise building.

I wish I wouldn’t got another million dollars. They say I should have been more with my dog. I should have been more playing with my family, with my kid, with my grandkids human. It’s the human value that before people pass. They realize that, but we don’t wanna hear that either. That is common knowledge, what I just told you.

And you know that, right? It’s common knowledge. Before people die, they say, I should’ve been more in nature. I should have walked there. I said, No, they’re not saying, Oh my God, I wish I would’ve gotten on a level of I Musk. I would’ve gotten like a think, I wish I would’ve gotten this. And we know it and we still get distracted and forget it.


Beth Rowles: Well, I hope that everybody that listens to this is reminded just how, what a present, the presence we give in our life that we take for ourselves too, is just everything. Michaell, tell people where they can find [00:42:00] you and get more of your amazing wisdom.

Michaell Magrutsche: Um, michaellm.com. Michaell with two Ls. Michaell m.com and there you get my podcast, which is 20 seconds.

I’ve not taken any time. I love that. 20 seconds because I couldn’t do it. Honestly. The honest thing is I’m dyslexic. I couldn’t do all the managing that you do, you know? So I did just say, but I also believe at the same time that I can condense it to a wisdom, to a, to a, to a quote with a question, and you will get.

The power of art, you will get the power of what it is to be human. And that’s called the smart of art, uh, the power of art and creativity.

Beth Rowles: Mm, That’s brilliant. I love that. Yeah. Let’s get those bite size pieces in. That’s all we need.

Michaell Magrutsche: Exactly. We have no time Anyway, so . Yeah. I hope somebody, I, I hope when you watch this episode, just watch it a couple times.

There’s so much in it. We, we pumped this in and Beth and [00:43:00] I really condensed that we made a brew. But it is really humane. It’s really just reflect on your humanness. Mm. And, and give it some value. Because a system should never be killing people in wars or anything. It should never be above. We created the system, you know,

Beth Rowles: and you, it shouldn’t be killing.

It shouldn’t be them killing themselves either , Exactly. To try to match with it. Yeah. I love this. We could do a whole series. You’re fantastic. Yeah. . Yeah,

Michaell Magrutsche: Just anytime. Beth, Anytime. Thank you for being here. Thank you, Beth.

You can find Michaell at



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I'm Beth Rowles, Hi!

I help driven moms use the conflict in their marriage as a feedback loop to grow in self-awareness so they can create the marriage they, and their kids, deserve without leaving the one they're in or waiting for their husband to evolve.

I'm the author of The Authentic Wife: Uncaging Yourself Through Marriage and host of The Authentic Wife Show podcast & YouTube channel.


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